256 Kilobytes

[For Noobs/Business Owners] Should you do SEO?

Articles in Search Engine Optimization | By Hash Brown

Published | Last Update

Lots of people ask me to do SEO, but for many people it's not the right thing to be doing. Read this before you sign some retarded contract.

1,090 view, 1 RAM, and 6 comments

My background is fairly simple, for large portions of my professional life I've been self employed and whored my web design services out to many clients from hotel owners to national ecommerce brands.

Sometimes old contacts and friends who know I do "internet shit" ask me the same thing regularly, so I figured it's possible that some people who end up on this website will be in a similar position.

So, should you even do a SEO? Lets find out.

What is SEO?

SEO is the basic practice of attracting traffic from search engines by improving your own website and (mostly) building links.

For example, if people are searching for something that you offer... It makes sense that you will get more visitors the higher you appear in the search engine results. If you are on page 2 or 3 then you may as well not have a website in many cases.

This chart explains the percentage of clicks that you get as your rankings in Google change. The difference between being #5 and being #1 for keywords can be brutal with #1 getting nearly 10x the traffic #5 gets. When you factor in how much money each lead can be potentially worth to you it quickly makes sense that being higher in Google is beneficial to you.

(Image source: Moz)

The Truth About SEO

As someone who is never going to do client work again, I can speak freely and it won't hurt me or what I do.

It's a big industry, it works very well for a bunch of people... but more often than not people fixate on it for being "free traffic". SEO has a bunch of problems such as:

  • Businesses have been wiped out from people being over reliant on Google traffic after updates.
  • It's not free, spending so much time building/altering your website in a specific "SEO friendly" way with extra content/features/links is expensive.
  • Most SEO professionals are people learning on the job.
  • SEO agencies business models is taking your money for 6 months on a contract and expecting you to say "fuck it, this is shit" and move to another agency. Some of them literally swap leads with other agencies when companies leave them.

If you speak to an SEO, do you expect them to say "yeah I don't think in this circumstance SEO will work"... Don't be naive.

SEO is an easy sell with "free Google traffic", "look how much traffic your competitors getting" and promises that "ranks will last for years"... The truth is most of this is BS.

SEO is full of crooks and a lot of agencies pray on small businesses selling them things that won't do anything positive for a small business.

Should I being doing SEO?

So, this is the key point and it's obviously something you should decide before you even contact a company to do it for you.

To see if it's worth doing SEO, you should look at the two things:

  • Predicted ROI of the keyword you want to target
  • The result page of that keyword

Calculating ROI of a keyword

To calculate the ROI of a keyword we need a few pieces of information.

  1. Search volume of the keyword
  2. Predicted CTR from the search result to your website
  3. Predicted conversion rate of the user once they are on your website
  4. The value of a conversion

To get the search volume of a keyword, use this website:

Set the country to be specific of where you expect your customers to be from. If you're a small town florist in the UK picking keyword volume for the USA is retarded.

Once we have this volume we need to predict the traffic we can expect. Using the chart above if we rank #3 for a keyword we should get 10% of the traffic. Lets use that.

Conversion rate on your website will depend on your niche, your website and what you class as a conversion (do they buy a product, click a link, sign up to an email list or send an email?).

The value of a conversion is again down to you... If you're a building company perhaps you close 1 contract for every 25 contact requests you get. So the value would be the average contract amount ($) divided by 25.

Once we have this information we can plug it into this formula to would out the monetiary value of ranking for that keyword.

ROI = (Search volume * Expected CTR) * (Conversion Rate * Conversion Value)

Lets look at a couple of examples, I realise this can be complicated for someone who doesn't know what SEO is.

Small town, small business:

Lets say you own a restaurant in a small town. "[small town] restaurant" gets 1000 monthly searches (ms), a conversion is a booking which currently converts at 15% through your website and a booking is worth £50 to you.

The ROI of this keyword would be:

(1000 (monthly searches) * 10% CTR (#3 ranking)) * (15% (conversion rate) * £50 (conversion value)) = £750 per month

This isn't terribly high, a good SEO agency would probably eat most of that £750 and even good agencies can take a few months before you see results.

Paying an agency £500/month for 3 months before you get results and then paying a recurring £500/month to keep going is probably not worth doing.

SEO would not work for you (don't stop reading, see alternatives below).

Small town, small business, high value:

For small town business owners who perhaps have good value services, things can change slightly. Lets pretend you are an estate ageny (realator for US fags) where landing a customer nets you £5000.

You have the keyword "estate agent in [town]" in mind, it gets 120 monthly searches. Your conversion rate is just 2% on your website and you think you can rank #3 again fairly easily.

(120 * 10%) * (2% * £5000) = £1200/month

Again, this isn't much, SEO would make more sense and you're bordering on making it worth it... 

Ecommerce company, mid-value products, nationwide delivery:

The final example we will look at is you are an ecommerce store, you sell mountain bikes.

You have a product worth on average £1000, because you're not a local business like the above examples and you can sell nationwide your search volume for "[bike model] for sale" is much higher at 5000 monthly searches.

Your website converts at 1.5% (ecommerce average) and Trusted SEO Agency LLC said you can rank #5 very easily.

(5000 * 6%) * (1.5% * £1000) = £4500/month

This is probably worth it, specifically when you consider it's likely that Trusted SEO Agency LLC will make sitewide improvements that boost your other products (and you don't just sell 1 bicycle model). 

Looking at the SERP result for other opportunities

Blindly ranking for certain keywords may make you feel good and the ROI may even suggest you may make money... but are there better options?

Lets take a look at some SERPs.

This is the above the fold results for "restaurants in ormskirk". This is extremely typical for "hyper local" search results.

Do you know what you don't see? A natural organic result, not even 1. A searcher would see the above list of restaurants with ratings/locations before they even saw your restaurant website.

Do you think ranking your website 1000 pixels from the top of the page will help? Probably not.

What you would be better off doing is trying to rank your Google business profile in that map pack. This can be done by:

  • Asking customers to leave reviews
  • Making sure your business profile information is correct and fully filled out
  • Add more/better pictures to your profile than your competitors
  • Regularly update your profile with anything you can

Basically, to out-rank other restaurants you need to think about your Google business profile as another channel of social media. It's relatively simple (compared to SEO) to rank these things, all you have to do is out-work your competition. More/better content in every aspect will do the job typically.

And... if you decide "hey Hash Browns a retard... Lets still do some SEO" the organic results are also very depressing.

Do you think you will outrank trip advisor? No... probably not.

The search volumes for these hyper local keywords are very low and the features Google have added to SERPs make it almost pointless to actively do SEO.

However, you could run Google Adwords. This is a program where Google will put your ad at the top (above search results) for a fee, typically only paid when people click.

You will notice that on this SERP screenshot that no one is currently doing this... That means you would be competing against no-one, making the cost per click (CPC) very low cost.

Lets say the search volume is 500ms and the cost per click is £0.30, you would be spending £150 per month (assuming every single person clicks (they won't)) to get 500 visitors.

This shit on SEO for ROI,  yet when you look at the SERP no one is doing it.

Most of the local retards who ask me "hey do you know a SEO" really don't even realise this.

For very local searches, PPC is widely and violently under used.

But what about our friend who sells mountain bikes? Lets look at ecommerce keywords.

We saw on the ROI check earlier that this made financial sense to look at SEO, and again this will confirm it.

The top result and right hand side is all adverts, the top being adwords and the right hand side being Google shopping. If you are into ecommerce PPC can be something you look at but this is about SEO...

The organic results start well above the fold, ranking organicly would have a much bigger impact on this SERP layout than ranking for our hyper-local searches above.

Yes, SEO for this kind of thing would make sense. You're basically looking for organic results above the fold, if you see that it means your website (with some work) can be there and if it makes financial sense to be in that spot go and do it.

You will sometimes see SERP results that look like this:

This is again a friendly ecommerce term (but more friendly to affiliates)... You see adverts on top but the massive box is what we called a featured snippet. This is an organic (free) spot where Google pick out a piece of 'outstanding' content and puts it directly in the result.

A lot of retards like Rand Fishkin get upset when Google do this, saying they are "stealing" content... but hes stupid. Look at this real world example below.

This is a screenshot of Google Search Console for one of my websites, these are two keywords from the same page. The top result is where I have "captured" one of these featured snippet for a very low volume keyword (400ms), the bottom is where I am ranked #6 for a 4000ms keyword.

Despite the bottom keyword having 10x the search volume, it's sending me literally less than 50% of the 400ms keyword. These massive boxes attract so many clicks... If you see these boxes for your keywords and you do the right things to get them they are fucking GOLD.


SEO only makes sense when you are going to make money doing it. This means you have the product value and search volume to be profitable, but also a keyword worth targetting with SEO.

Only when both of these are favourable to you, should you do SEO.

Ok so if SEO is not worth doing, what should I be doing?

If you have a hyper-local service, making your Google business profile better should be more important than ranking your website. Your business profile is worth so much more than a website for most small businesses.

Outwork your competitors, more pictures (get professionals in), a 3D building tour can help, customer reviews, more updates, more information, responding to customer reviews, regularly updating everything and making sure your business details are consistent across the web. Google gets information from everywhere, if your business information does not match the information on your facebook page or trip advisor profile it can get confused.

You should also explore PPC, I will probably write a guide explaining how to do this for small search terms soon but if not you can find help on YouTube. It's extremely simple, just do it. Even if you do a terrible wasteful job, you're doing to be out £50 or something... SEO is 10x that per month.

Other things you can consider:

Social Media

This will depend on what you do, but would customers be interested in what you do on an ongoing basis?

For example, if you sell aquarium fish your customers may be interested in updates on new fish you have each week, run a facebook page. It's worth putting time in to grow that little community and keep them excited.

However, if you sell granite counter tops then people are probably not going to give a shit about new counter tops you have each week... 

Facebook is also very "pay to play", if you're expecting to reach customers (even after they like your page) they usually make you pay for that honour. Lots companies are leaving the platform to focus in other areas.

Content Marketing in General

I'm going to separate this out form Social Media, but it's actually very similar...

What if I told you there was an iPhone repair shop in New York which has 900,000 YouTube subscribers and now gets business from all over the USA?

This guy is Louis Rossmann, who for some reason began livestreaming himself working and built up a fanbase. It kind of helps that hes interesting and funny, but from a small shop in NYC he's built up a worldwide business repairing iPhones and Macs by teaching people how to do this on their own.

He does this because:

  1. It establishes him as an authority, people trust him with their shit because they can see he has a huge social following and that's a healthy sign for a small business.
  2. He now has extra revenue streams because people will literally post him their broken shit and he sells spare parts
  3. He knows that most people don't have $1000's in board repair tools at home to even attempt these repairs on their own.

Think about what you do and how you can give away your knowledge for free, it sounds terrible and counter productive but this is something that's played out repeatedly. Fuck, even 256kilobytes.com does it, did you know you can literally hire August himself to do everything he has written about on this website?

Hell, fuck it man. If you have done the calculation for SEO being worth while and you're looking for an expert, he's one of them and it's proof of this "free knowledge" thing working out. You could just read all the content on this website and do it yourself, make mistakes, waste time, make things worse... Or just accept that perhaps giving the person who is teaching you $1000/month might be a better option.

This doesn't need to be done in video form either like my example, you can write blog posts or even do it on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram. Whatever format works and whatever format your potiential customers will consume will work.

Local forums/News websites

My town has their own little independant news websites and forums for nosey old people to complain about the youth and how there are too many empty shops.

Perhaps your town does too, these websites are good. Some may even sell adverts or have local directories for businesses, try and join them and be part of that community. Being nice to people is good for business.

Local News Papers

Same as above but probably more commercial/formal.

Google Adwords

I covered this above but you may not have read the entire thing. For hyper-local search terms it's most likely not going to make sense to hire a SEO company for £500/month when you can just give Google £150/month and rank #1 for any keyword you like right away. You can even bid on search terms for your competitors names, it's not even difficult.


SEO is very powerful, but for the majority of business owners who only opperate locally or in small niches the it's not always going to work or make sense.

Don't give idiots money if this is the case, spend 10 minutes with a calculator and save yourself cash for hookers and coke.

Users Who Have Downloaded More RAM:
August R. Garcia (3 years ago)
🐏 ⨉ 1
Posted by Hash Brown 3 years ago

Edit History

• [2019-07-15 1:53 PDT] Hash Brown (3 years ago)
🕓 Posted at 15 July, 2019 01:53 AM PDT

Read More:
seo tips
Profile Photo - August R. GarciaAugust R. GarciaLARPing as a Sysadmi...Portland, ORSite Owner

This is a good post and anyone who is considering doing SEO should read it.



I want to better my life and secure my future myself as well. I've been into ranking sites on Google page 1 in the top position for about 6 years. Recently I've learned a lot to get me closer, I have two affiliate sites but can't get there yet. The bottom of page 1 I've gotten but there isn't anything but the first three positions, where a floodgate of money opens with thousands of dollars every month. Those individual pages are on there forever with consistent income.

But it looks like I'm going to have to pay an SEO company to get my pages there. They cost $500 a month, but it's an investment. I obviously can't afford it.


Source: Corey Needs Money to Survive (Please Donate)

One major and extremely under-considered factor that determines whether a site is where and how your business/sites generate value (i.e., why do people actually pay you money). Consider these two scenarios:

  • You make and sell skis
  • You sell Jeff's skis

In the first scenario, you generate value (i.e., money) from all of the following things:

  • Designing skis
  • Manufacturing skis
  • Processing customer orders
  • Handling support tickets and inquiries
  • Packaging and Shipping skis
  • Managing refunds and disputes
  • Designing and launching a website that facilitates the order process
  • Doing marketing to promote your skis

In the second scenario, you make money from the following thing:

  • Doing marketing to promote Jeff's skis

The implications being not just that the margins are lower with affiliate sites, but also that:

  • It's basically fucking irrelevant how efficient your SEO is if you actually fucking sell the skis, since your money is mostly coming from thing's that aren't marketing skis.
  • If you run an affiliate marketing site, you literally have to do a good job because the only thing you get paid for is marketing.
  • You can't fucking "pay an SEO company" to rank affiliate sites because literally that's the only part of the business that you make money from (although you can contract out aspects of SEO if you know what you're doing, just not to a "we do everything for you sir" company).

If you want to do SEO or other Internet marketing and are starting one of your first sites, consider selling a service. Literally any service; it's basically irrelevant. For example, for most writing-niche services, the value per lead literally (not figuratively) goes from like $15 per lead to like $300+ per lead; and that is profit, not revenue. Of course, you have to actually render the services, but if you git good you can subcontract everything out for like under 50% of the total lead value.

TL;DR: Fucking do something that generates value besides just the marketing (i.e., running an affiliate site) to make SEO, Internet marketing, and other lead generation substantially more profitable on a per-lead basis and substantially more forgiving on a fucking-being-shitty-at-marketing basis.

Download more RAM. 🐏 ⨉ 0Posted by August R. Garcia 3 years ago

Edit History

• [2019-08-01 7:53 PDT] August R. Garcia (3 years ago)
• [2019-08-01 7:53 PDT] August R. Garcia (3 years ago)
🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 07:53 AM PDT

Sir, I can do you a nice SEO.

Profile Photo - Hash BrownHash BrownInternet ActivistEnglandStaff

I fucking disagree but agree with this:

Thou shall not get into affiliate marketing, unless thee has the knowledge to get and convert traffic

- Socrates

As a man who worked in ecommerce extensively dealing with anything from:

  • idiot customers who can't work websites
  • idiot suppliers sending the wrong shit
  • idiot couriers delivering to the wrong places
  • idiot post people missing pick up deadlines
  • idiot harley davidson sending cease and desists 
  • a whole host of other idiots 

I literally never want to do that shit again, I'm happy to take the 5-10% amazon commissions and easy keywords and cash in. Fuck customers, fuck people, praise Jeff...

There are great affiliate programs that add up to large amounts of passive income over time, offers for products like casinos, VPNs and SEO software like SEMRush that pay recurring fees every month the customer is with them is peak affiliate marketing. I'd argue having 100 people signed up to SEMRush paying you 40% a month is more fun than running an actual product/service based business.

Small start up costs are also good reasons to be an affiliate.

But what Corey said is straight up retarded and is exactly what you should expect from a retard who boasts about being involved with pyramid schemes thinking he beat the system. 

Download more RAM. 🐏 ⨉ 0Posted by Hash Brown 3 years ago

Edit History

• [2019-08-01 8:22 PDT] Hash Brown (3 years ago)
🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 08:22 AM PDT


Profile Photo - August R. GarciaAugust R. GarciaLARPing as a Sysadmi...Portland, ORSite Owner

As a man who worked in ecommerce [...] I literally never want to do that shit again

Tru. Services are AIDS to run, basically.

But gitting at least ten times gooder at marketing when making your first site has a substantially longer time-to-profit/time-to-non-trivial-income than does selling something directly (e.g., if you are trying to quit a day job, etcetera).

Download more RAM. 🐏 ⨉ 0Posted by August R. Garcia 3 years ago

Edit History

• [2019-08-01 8:57 PDT] August R. Garcia (3 years ago)
🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 08:57 AM PDT

Sir, I can do you a nice SEO.

Profile Photo - DefaultNethustlerBanned

I use fiverr for my seo jobs and definitely yu should use SEO as it bring you free 1000% targeted traffic and i strongly reccommend you read these fiverr reviews here as it reveals 22 people whom have used fiverr freelancers and their experience while using them.. I used fiverr for my backlinks and that has eneble me rank number one on google, bing and other search engines which has all brought growth to my business and as well $$$ to my pocket.. SO SEO IS GOOD for small businesses.. BUt you have to make sure you do it right!

PS: Daniel Umeh loves sucking filthy horse cock and I am going to kill myself shortly.

Download more RAM. 🐏 ⨉ 0Posted by Nethustler 3 years ago

Edit History

• [2019-08-01 11:44 PDT] Nethustler (3 years ago)
• [2019-08-01 11:44 PDT] August R. Garcia (3 years ago)
🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 11:44 AM PDT
Profile Photo - Hash BrownHash BrownInternet ActivistEnglandStaff

> SO SEO IS GOOD for small businesses.. BUt you have to make sure you do it right!

You're not doing it right

Download more RAM. 🐏 ⨉ 0Posted by Hash Brown 3 years ago 🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 14:02 PM PDT


Profile Photo - August R. GarciaAugust R. GarciaLARPing as a Sysadmi...Portland, ORSite Owner

Nethustler please come back and read Hash Brown's sick burn before I ban you.

Users Who Have Downloaded More RAM:
Hash Brown (3 years ago)
🐏 ⨉ 1
Posted by August R. Garcia 3 years ago 🕓 Posted at 01 August, 2019 14:10 PM PDT

Sir, I can do you a nice SEO.

Post a New Comment

Do you like having a good time?

Register an Account

You can also login to an existing account or reset your password. All use of this site is subject to the terms of service and privacy policy.

Read Quality Articles

Read some quality articles. If you can manage to not get banned for like five minutes, you can even post your own articles.

View Articles →

Argue with People on the Internet

Use your account to explain why people are wrong on the Internet forum.

View Forum →

Vandalize the Wiki

Or don't. I'm not your dad.

View Wiki →

Ask and/or Answer Questions

If someone asks a terrible question, post a LMGTFY link.

View Answers →

Make Some Money

Hire freelancers and/or advertise your goods and/or services. Hire people directly. We're not a middleman or your dad. Manage your own business transactions.

Register an Account